Ep.26 Yurbay: First Nations Plant Wisdom - Adam Shipp

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You're on the plants grow here podcast. I'm Daniel Fuller. Come along with me as we enter a hidden world of deep horticultural, ecological and landscape gardening knowledge with featured experts, industry professionals and enthusiasts. Long before European people came to Australia, the original inhabitants of this land were working with plants. Tragically, some of this wisdom has been lost. But in this episode we're lucky enough to have on Adam Shipp is the creator of a fabulous organization called Yurbay where he teaches indigenous knowledge to people from all walks of life. Good I, Adam, I guess we don't really have much of a plan for this episode. So can you tell us a little bit about who you are and your story?
Yeah. So I'm Adam ship. I'm Rhodri man. So for those who don't know, rodri is a large tribal nation takes up a big chunk of New South Wales, my family, originally from the dubbo area, the only South Wales region. So a lot of people know that work for the zoo and things like that. And, yeah, we both Nan and pops sort of country, pull through that area. My father moved to Canberra, as a young Aboriginal man for work in the 70s and met my mother, who's who's a Welsh woman from the UK, who also, you know, her parents moved over here for their opportunities and things. So that's kind of, I guess, a brief history of how I came to be. I'm born and raised in Canberra. Now, what country and I, yeah, I've done all my schooling and all my work here, what I've sort of been involved with, in terms of like plant related work over the last sort of 10 years, starting as a Ranger, parks and Conservation Service here in the ICT, which is a like that, yeah, there's like the national parks sort of set up. So during that kind of learning, our traditional plant knowledge and wisdom from a lot of Fini, Aboriginal ranges. And then from there, I moved into a non government organization called greening Australia. We're also a national company, and worked there for around six years or so. And I guess my kind of role there, like I did a lot of the restoration work that they do their core work, but I also was kind of employed to bring Aboriginal perspectives into the organization and sort of lead kind of education programs around that in the city. So that's kind of what I was doing while I was there. And luckily, during that period, obviously, I've got to connect a lot more and reconnect with my Rhodri elders, and learn a lot more about our plant user. Now, traditional sort of plant users. So that's been a really cool journey for me the last three years working in my own business, I started my own business nearby, which means seed in rodri. And kind of exemplifies everything that I do on my passion, which is plants. So I guess my my business, what I've been doing is continuing that work in the, you know, the environment, the ecology, space, but also, the education and cultural education space, are working with schools working more on programs with my Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander community here, but also with the broader public sort of educating on our traditional plant use. So that's kind of me in a nutshell. You know, not there's a lot more to it, but that's kind of, I guess, an introductory to it, in a sense. So,
yeah, so that's very interesting. And why did you choose? I mean, I guess you could have chosen any plant pot to represent your business. So why you're a buy or seed?
Oh, yeah. Look, I chose that. I mean, yeah, firstly, see, it's so important, isn't it? You know, most plants anyway, come from seed. And that's where everything starts from. And so that's what I thought I wanted to exemplify in the name or sort of showing the name is my actual sort of, I guess logo is euro by always growing because, you know, seeds, or we're always growing from that. So it's kind of a, I guess, a deeper meaning to it, to sort of show my passion of plants but also that, you know, my business can continue to grow like seeds do also. Yeah, just need a more general sense. Like, I really do see the importance of seed, particularly native plants, you know, a lot of places where they were in abundance or declining doodoo. You know, in these urban places, you know, they're getting, you know, suburbs and places built over their natural habitat. So they they're in decline. And so there's really an important for us to be collecting that seed and to be growing more of these plants and creating more of these kind of areas where we can have more of these plants and click More of the seed and continue them growing and living, I guess. So I think for me, like, seed is really important part of the whole whole picture. Yeah, I
totally agree. I think it's a beautiful image. The seed just yeah, it's the beginning of everything, like you say.
So yeah, so that's, yeah, then that's the my logo to see. But the friend of mine, she's a great artists average ladder sheet designed for me. And so it's got sort of our traditional art in there, but with a seat as well. And seedlings sprouting from it. So yeah, so that's, that's kind of the image I wanted to display.
But a little tap break coming down to.
Yeah, that's it. Yeah.
So what does it mean to you to be connected to the land?
Yeah. So look, it's quite a powerful thing I believe for for our people, being just being connected, being out on country, it's quite a healing process. And I understand that it's, it's healing for all humans. It's not just us, as Aboriginal people, human beings have that connection and that get that healing from being connected to land more. So I think it's really important for everyone. But, you know, for me as Rhodri man, like I mean, just recently, being back out on my ancestral country, with my aunties and uncles on that, and really just connecting back to there and learning the old stories of those places, it just makes you it really just heals the light, not more than just physical. It's a spiritual connection, you know, it really heals you and makes you really, I guess, feel that belonging to revise? Yeah,
I couldn't agree more, I definitely feel it's hard to explain it. But when you just sort of outside with your feet in the ground, and you just listening to the birds, and every luck kind of time stops in a way. Like, it's not that time slows down or anything. It's just when you get outside of your own worries and stuff like that. I think that there are some I don't know if it's just what it is. But yeah, just being in nature, and just listening to natural sounds and stuff just makes you feel good. And it's hard to explain.
Yeah, now, I totally agree with you. And it sometimes it is hard to explain. And people just really need to be out there and do it to really understand it, I guess. And you know, that's why I am really passionate about the work that I do. Because I can connect people to that even though I'm sort of teaching them traditional sort of users and things like they're out, they have to be out in the bush connecting. So. So that's the part of my job, I guess, that is quite rewarding is that I am getting people out there. And, you know, kind of reconnecting to that. And I guess for them slowed down a little bit and forget their worries, as you mentioned, you know, just even if it's for an hour or something, so, yeah.
So I guess you're taking people out into the bush, and you're sort of walking them through some of the plants and you're telling them some of the wisdom. Yeah, can you tell me what sort of people that you have out there? And what do you find that you're sort of telling them?
Yeah, so it's, it's quite a diverse range of people. There has been a real, I guess, resurgence of just kindness, I guess, in in the broader community, to learn and to connect to this kind of knowledge. So I'm finding people from all walks of life coming out on when I run these sessions, I mean, a lot of my work being from a business perspective, you know, a lot of the work that I get is from schools and stuff. So I'm working with a lot with youth, and sort of, you know, I guess getting them more connected to that space and learning that kind of stuff. So, you know, it's really good. It's rewarding for me to be able to do that work with the next generation, you know, I see there, there just is such a difference in our children when you get them out on country. And again, it's not only Aboriginal children, it's all children. It's just they just turn totally different, you know, to how they may have been when it's sort of cooked up in four walls in a classroom kind of thing. And I think educators really starting to see the value of what myself and what others do. Because of that, they they see the difference in in the children that they're educating and stuff by sort of doing this alternative, I guess, what they call alternative kind of learning, even though it's the way You know, my people have left for 1000s of years. So yeah, so that's, I guess, generally is, is youth but in saying that, like, you know, run regular programs with some of our adults Aboriginal torture on adults that have been through the justice systems that I've, you know, had some issues there. And some a lot of them released from prison or whatever. And again, with that, it's really more of a, again, the healing, look at it, getting them back and reconnecting to culture and things and on country and sort of forgetting their worries and what's happening in town and the stresses of that, in a more broader sense, yet so much keenness, I guess, from the broader community outside of Aboriginal, the Aboriginal local community that there's just so much interested just to learn about what's actually here locally, in a home backyard that we can use for food, medicine, fiber, all that sort of stuff, there's just such a key nests around that, which is, I think, really, really great to see.
Yeah, totally, I guess, when we talk about first nation plant was done. A lot of the time people probably initially think of bushtucker but is there more to it than just food
are definitely probably, you know, the mean everything for us, or like all the kind of plant stuff and anything is sacred for us and our fates very sacred. But you know, a lot of our, the actual process of collecting our medicines and stuff is very, very important, sacred to and there are some powerful medicines out there, that have been taught, you know, these things that have really helped a lot of people. So, you know, Bush medicine is definitely all around us. And there's quite a lot there for lots of different ailments and things. So, you know, so that's something that's quite big. And then also, the actual plants and natural things to make things so fibers to make, you know, our baskets, nets, make rope, make stone axes and tools, you know, like, we obviously have the stone axe, which is from the stone, but you know, you need a handle, which is from a Eucalyptus or from some sort of hardwood. There's so many things out there. It's not just tacker not just food, but in saying that what I think a lot of people are amazed by is when they go for a walk with myself or other indigenous people that passionate about plants, they actually start to see that there's a lot more food and a lot more edible stuff out there, then there is poisonous, so everyone's got everything's poisonous in the bush, but you're gonna find a lot more edible stuff than poison. So yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's, that's very interesting. I'd like to touch on that. And I'd also like, whenever we talk about edible wild foods, I always like to make the disclaimer of we're not responsible for anybody who goes out there and tries to eat food and poisons themselves. Because Definitely,
yeah, yeah,
I guess you're gonna need someone who knows that what they're looking at to be able to be a guide, would that be right?
Yeah, exactly. Right. And also, even if it's not, you know, a lot of people just think of a plant ik ate that berry you just gonna drop dead. Like, even if it's not that kind of sort of toxicity, there's things out there that need a certain process before they can be made, you know, edible or made, you know, right for our bodies to to digest and things. So even things that seem like they could be safe. If you continue to eat it over time, then you're going to run into issues. So. So that's really important, too, is But no, I definitely, as you say, don't go out there just trying it, show a beat be with someone that's competent, or guide first and really learn your identification, because that's a big one, too. There's a lot of plants that look similar. Some can be toxic, you know, to others. And so that's a really big one, too, I think when you're starting in this space is identification of plants.
Absolutely, yeah. Down to the species level. Sometimes, too. I recently made a mistake where I was thought I was eating a type of clover. But it was actually a relative, it was a pharmacy family relative that was actually toxic. So no matter how, no matter how long you've been in it, you think you know what you're doing. And then unless you're doing it down to that species level, you just don't always know.
Yeah, exactly. Now you're exactly what they say. Yep. Oh, it's got to be got to be a bit careful and always be 100% or more when you're eating something new Bindu particularly.
Totally. So can you tell us a little bit about some of the other uses that plants are being used for say, for example, fishing and stuff like that?
Yeah, so we've got quite a few obviously, plants that we can use that way there's, you know, here in the ICT and I'm sure there's, you know, if you're suffering Victoria, there's a lot of similarities in native plants like species and stuff. But you know, for example, we have a native Indigo here in the Gulf Australis, which is sufficient plant and that is Basically, the leaf roots can be crushed up together. So they've kind of crushed up at the same sort of way that we will grind their seeds and things. And then you will find a waterhole or even the old methods of actually creating fish traps. So it's sort of channeling fish into certain parts of a river into like a, into a water hole. And that's kind of devoid of ox, you know, running water, and then you would throw throw that plant into there. So once you know that the fish have been channeled into that place, throw the throw the plant matter into there. And what it actually does is it takes the rest of the oxygen out of the water, and then stands the fish. So it doesn't kill them. It just dumped them makes them quite easy to be collected, they sort of flight then so you can basically scrape them out. And it doesn't affect your food, like eating, it just stands and makes them easier to be caught. So you know, that's one example. There are plenty other. And there's a couple of waddles spaces, quite a few. But luckily, I mean, the Blackwood case for mellanox, and the light wood as well. They're catering Plex. So they both have properties in their lives that will stand animals. So fish will stand and even kangaroos if you have enough of it in a warm water hall or waterplace. So you know, like kangaroos, and a lot of those animals can be predictable in where they go to drink and things. So if you have it placed in a waterhole, like the leaves for a period, and it's leaching out into that, and then they drink it, then they sort of get a bit stunned and a bit noisy. So it makes them easy, it slows them down makes them easier to be handled. So that that's some of the methods, some plants, you know, plenty of other plants out there used for other things as well. Like, I mean, one of them, I can think of back home, we call it the abbey bush. And it's, I think it's one of the maryadas bases. Yeah, kind of exactly. I don't exactly know the botanical name of that one. But you basically it's quite spiky and tangling, and you basically just pull it right out from the roots, because there's quite a lot of them, you just pull one out from the roots, type in a bush rope, throw it into a dam or into a waterway, and you can stick a little bit of meat on it to the abbeys, yabbies will climb up during for the mate and then they get stuck in it. So, you know, it was like a, it was like a traditional yabby trap, basically. So there's so many different plants out there that do different things, but they're some of the examples of
awesome, can you explain some of the ways that the landscape changes with the season? With the seasons?
Yep. Yeah, so look, quite a lot. I mean, it depends where you are, obviously, as well, in the nation, you know, quite a large, you know, continent here. And there's so many different types of seasons, depending where you are, I guess I can give examples from where I am, and large parts of sort of Southeast Australia and things but in the ICT, we the local normal people who I work closely with, and also more people, Rhodri people, we have similar sort of looks at seasons, but we actually kind of categorize it into six seasons. And I know that different places might have seven might have eight seasons and things like that. And often within those seasons, plant behavior is a big part of determining the season. So at the moment, for example, being this dryer, we're sort of in a drier summer period. Now, obviously, you know, this year, it's changed a little bit because of the remainder and stuff events, but in saying that the last week has been quite dry. You know, we in these drier periods of the drier summer, we have the seed the season. So you know, the seeds of many grasses have many models of many different, you know, tree seeds carried on seeds, different things like that are all sort of coming on. And they're quite important in a traditional diet. Because those seeds were collected in large amounts, some of them could be dried and stored for later periods of the year when there wasn't so much food around particularly like winter. So they're quite an important food. And so that comes out in this period. Now for the next four to three months, you'll be getting collecting the native seed. So this season can be defined by like the theme. And obviously, then there's a lot of different animals that are doing things in this period. You know, there may be animals, kangaroos, or whatever, you know, as an example, they may be mating. And so they become taboo in traditional culture for hunting. So you know, there might be a whole period where you're, you're only eating budget vegetable foods, because a lot of your game meats and stuff are going through a meeting or as we would prefer going through their dreaming period. And so we need to leave them alone to let them do that. And then they become an available resource later in the year when they're more sort of needed, you know, in the colder months when we need more of those kinds of resources. So that gives you I guess a sort of brief example before for the For camera, and for many parts, I guess, just before the seed season, and they kind of overlap a little bit too, so this isn't, you know, exact, because they will overlap depending on the plant species. But the sort of, I guess, late October, November into December is often the abundance of fruit. So, Bush, fruit, Bush for eight seasons, and you're gonna see this typically across different parts of Australia. So you know, here, ICT, we're gonna get a lot of native cherries, then the dianella fruit and the G bongs and different things like that fruiting, you know, ego heading in a little bit inland, you get you have your condoms, fruiting, you know, very iconic sort of traditional food. So, yeah, and they often that may sound a little bit early, like late September as well, but they'll be fruiting through this period. So I guess that kind of in a sense, is how we define the different seasons, when we're talking about plant more knowledge and stuff, that's how it connects in it's the different things what they're doing at different times. Another thing too, is apart from what the actual resources available, is plentiful, actually work as like a calendar for us, and indicate the starting of things. So you know, flowering, you know, one model species, an example silverwater, will flower had sort of the start of our first spring. So that will, it's after basically the winter equinox, when the, you know, days start to become slightly longer. And you know, the salt water really only needs a minute or two longer each day, and it starts to flower, like it starts to bud. And so that's telling us that that new season is coming in. And then that's news resources, or new foods are coming in, maybe fish are waking up from a sort of winter, summer and starting to move a little bit more, so they're more active, and then, you know, you can be caught in different parts of the river system. So yeah, so they're not just resource foods, defining the seasons, but there's also like, a flower or something might actually end up returning of a different season, which we still look at today without more sort of, I guess, more Europeans. So to look at how we look at seasons now in Australia with, you know, the Four Seasons, you know, often Autumn is defined by, you know, the deciduous trees, dropping leaves and, and then spring is defined by the blossoms that have been planted around the cities. So yeah, so I think we still look at it today. Is this a little bit differently? to how it was a little decoration?
Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of people are gonna find that very interesting, and probably mind bending, because they've probably never heard of the concept of more than four seasons. But as you say, that is based off of observations made on the landscape.
Yes, definitely. And observation is a big part, obviously, of our culture, because observation, then turns into that traditional knowledge that is then really important, and passed to the next generations to know how to work with the seasons and move with the seasons.
You mentioned the term they're dreaming, and I just can't go past that term. Can you explain what that means?
Yeah, so I mean, we all sort of have probably heard of the dream time. And, you know, I guess a lot of people look at the dream time, think of it as a past tense, but it's not, it's forever continuing. And so everything has the dream. And, you know, our plants are exactly the same, they have they're dreaming. And that might be when they're producing a seed, or that might be when they're flowering. And then that's, it can be a little bit, I guess, hard to sort of explain sometimes without being on country, I guess. But like, that's in a sort of brief point of wrap up and things like that, how we can be, we can look at things look, look at the behaviors and how they're happening. And animals are the same. So, you know, I'll just use one example that, you know, has taught me about down on the coast, South Coast, New South Wales. And she talks about, like, all sharp dreaming and so bull shark dreaming is when they're coming in, they're mating, and they're actually closer to the shore and closer to the shoreline. And, you know, in the bull shark dreaming, obviously, it teaches us not to be in the water at that period. That time because they're in there, they're doing their mating, and they're quite aggressive as well. So we, you know, there's teachings in that for us, too. Let's not be handing in that period in the water, let's be out, maybe hunting land, instead land animals and certain things, because that's their period. And that's their time. And we need to respect that because that's their place. We think so. Yeah. Hopefully that kind of sort of explains it a little bit.
I think that it will be difficult to explain it because it is a mysterious thing. So I think you've done a great job of explaining it to in a short time. I mean, I would certainly like to learn more and about that.
Yeah, thanks.
No, yeah. I was gonna say as well, it's obvious that have deep respect and connection to the land with you, it's not just a one way thing of like, it's not just a simple thing, it's, it's a whole way of life of observing and passing down knowledge to other people. And just living on the land in in a really respectful way. Like, when you say, like, you got to respect the bull sharks and stuff like that, the wisdom of that I've observed is, we don't take that into account of, you know, the bull sharks are meeting during that season, we just say, are those sharks in the water? We don't really think about the season or why that might be that they're coming closer now.
Yeah, that's right. And I think it would be, it's helpful still today for, for all the fans to learn this kind of stuff a little bit more and be a bit more respectful of it. Because, you know, it's going to be helpful, you know, to know that knowledge and to understand that it might not be good time to go swimming in an ocean period, you know, we hear that every year, someone getting attacked by a shark or whatever. And, and I guess maybe listening by listening to the local peoples of the land, that have that sort of knowledge and continue to share it, it's quite important for all Australians, to take on a bit bit more. Yeah, but even, like, even just, again, like with plants and stuff, you know, a lot of plants, you know, if they're flowering or something, for example, that's, that might be they're dreaming. And that means that we don't have a set plan, if it's got a tuber. It's got a route or something, we leave it at that period. And this is an all plants it's just some there's dreaming behind each different plan. And that's just an example of some of them, we will aim alone, they're doing their flaring, you know, that flower is providing food and, and things for insects and stuff that are also really important in the whole, I guess, what have we feared, oneness, they all created? No, we're all connected to everything. And so it's really important to be quiet, I guess, tread lightly in the bush and just to respect or things like that. And, and so that's kind of also a part of it, I guess, is understanding the different times a year that we can be harvesting and collecting and things like that. And again, that kind of connects with the law of the land and the plant floor and all that sort of stuff.
So when you say Lord land, do you mean la w or l o? r? e?
Yeah, hello, Ira, I guess as as it's been spelled English, right. Yeah. And it is obviously an English word. But yeah, that's what we kind of mean, we have our traditional laws in place, and they have never changed, you know, the focus always continuing. And, yeah, so we have those that we live by, and, and then we have, obviously, the new laws that have been brought here. And so yeah, so that's kind of the ones that we try to be still connect with them. And, you know, what I stress with people is to understand is that they have never disappeared from this landscape. And we're all living in it now. And if you're born of this land, it doesn't matter. If you average or not, you are connected, in that sense, to those laws and to the law of that land.
That's really beautiful. So you were saying that you sort of work with the parks, Rangers and stuff like that? What are we doing well in that space? And where can we improve Adam?
I get, I think there's a real, again, quite a keenness to work together. More so now than what I've seen in the past, even in the past. Like I said, 10 years that I've been in that space. Last year, I got a contract with a city government doing some restoration work. And, you know, just working with the Rangers here, they're just so keen to have more Aboriginal people on the ground involved, but also actually sharing and like, you know, working with that those traditional knowledge and ways to sort of bring better outcomes, I guess, you know, I think, like a lot of a lot of ecologists, a lot of people in that space, you know, what, the learnings that they've learned from the scientific ways, they're starting to see that, like, a lot of our traditional knowledge, it just all links up the same way. And it might be a roundabout way, but it all kind of connects in and so I think people are starting to realize that and starting to understand that it is so important to learn from those old ways as well and kind of connect them in, you know, I have a lady that I work with non indigenous lady in parks, she's an arranger and has years of experience but she, when we were out, she was showing us the site that we had to do some work on. She was basically doing some sort of burning your country and she's, like, you know, there's so much red tape in government, unfortunately, and it's really hard to just get some fire on the ground. So she was kind of just doing it. And, and only small patches, you know, but she was showing us these patches and they're just coming back with just so diverse species of plant life like native plant life, and the weeds are just disappearing, you know, she's just doing that she's made that slight change and made, you know, taken really taken on the, I guess the traditional knowledge of far as well, you know, she's kind of learned those from traditional owners and things and kind of she just really seen a lot, I guess, in that sense. And she was so proud of her work, you know, showing us what had come back. And it was just great for myself and my good friend who is local, now a woman that we know who we're working together and to be able to see these non indigenous people really embrace it. It's just really nice to say,
yeah, that's really beautiful. And thanks for keeping your name private, too, because we definitely don't want to add her. No, no,
definitely not. Now, I won't drop any names.
So for our listeners, who would like to know more about First Nation plant wisdom in especially Bush, can you recommend some resources for us?
Yeah, so I often get that question. So for my local area, and I know, there's probably not a lot of people, oh, there may be some people in this local area sort of listening. But there's an animal plant is scarred, which I worked on with local animal people. And put that together that's available in book form. And it's available online. So you can order it online, that although it is the normal place, and it is specific to the normal region, one of the plants in there, you're going to find across large parts of Southeast Australia. So it could be still a worthwhile guide, even if you're in Victoria, etc, you know, parts of New South Wales, there's also a rodri, one that's been out a little bit longer, it's actually now available just online for free. It's the Rhodri plant news guide, and that really covers the plant. So you're gonna see that in there are going to be a little bit more sort of, I guess, in the central, sort of Central West regions, which is rodri country, but you're gonna if you're not in that area, sort of more the, I guess, arid regions of Australia. So again, Victoria has arid regions, you'll probably find some of those plants that are in that book in the arid regions of Victoria, and I'm right up into Queensland and stuff. So there are two good guides that I can think of. There is another one. If you bear with me, I'll just go and get the name of it.
Yeah, no worries. Yep. dramas. Yeah.
So this is one that I found online, really awesome guide, this is Victorian base. But again, like these plants go across, right up into Queensland, and it's just called bush foods, and survival plants of South East Australia. So if you just Google that, it should come up. But apart from all that, like guys are really, really good. Again, like we talked about, my first thing would be to connect locally with who may be in your local region. And some regions are going to be easier than others, I understand that to connect with local custodians and stuff, but you know, that's if you really want to, I guess really learn, you know, the, the stuff that it's, that's the best way to do it is to be out on on country with knowledge holders and stuff. And to learn that now. You know, in the ICT, for example, we have First Nation businesses that are doing these walks like myself, and and others are no probably Melbourne, places like that Sydney, the biggest cities, there's there's many Aboriginal sort of terrorism groups and stuff that run these things. So I think that would be my first thing kind of call. And then if you, you know, resource guides, like the ones I've mentioned, are very helpful as well. So
thank you for those. And we will have links in the show notes for people to check out those resources as well as some local people that they can connect with as well. So
yeah, cool. Cool.
And I always ask us at the end, it's a spot for you to plug something that you've done to advocate for a change in the world or to recommend a charity. Is there anything else that you'd like the listeners to know about? Adam,
tell you that's a good way? Look, I probably, I guess it's a bit of a fly. It's still sort of, I would say in its infant stages, but one of the programs I work on here in the ICT is called culture talks. And this is a program that, as I mentioned before, is to assist our people coming like better in the justice system coming out of prison and things and sort of assisting them to get back on the I guess on the right track, and that program, I, I'm involved with weekly, we are actually added a, we take the participants out to a farm called cattle come along in the ICT. And this farm is a really awesome place. It's got so much stuff going on out there, you know, metalworking and woodworking and all sorts of different things. They're planning a whole lot of different bush foods and native foods as well as you know, more conventional vegetables and stuff out there. And, and so that program, I'm hoping to kind of, we're having to get a social enterprise happening out of there, which can provide money back into the program, because the program is kind of just grants based at the moment. And so if we can kind of make it a bit more self sufficient, it would be great. So at the moment, there's nothing to really look at, in terms of like information on it. But you can maybe follow my Instagram, which is battleship underscore, Euro VI, why you are the A why I it started off as a personal account, that's why battleship, which is my nickname, and then I turned it into my business account. But yeah, I'm gonna have more information on that, hopefully down the track as we get going. And there's going to be hopefully, products available with culture talks, kind of product. So you know, that could be anything from handmade products that they've made on the program. So you know, some of the leather work, and some of the maybe more traditional stuff like boomerangs club sticks, things like that, right through to push through products, so medicinal teas, spices, Herbes author stuff, so hopefully, eventually down the track this year, and it's definitely gonna happen. k positive, and that's it, we're going to be sort of really getting that up and running and, and people will be able to purchase products and that money will go back into a world and sort of cause in in keeping the program going and keeping our people engaged, you know, sort of more cultural practices and, and creating a better sort of future for them. Thank you. I
don't know it was incredible episode. Really appreciate it. Oh, good. Thank you, Daniel. Yeah,
thanks for inviting me on.
Get in touch with your local Aboriginal groups that are putting themselves out there and are willing to teach what they know. burning with fire isn't as simple as it sounds. So if you haven't been trained by an expert, it's best to just avoid it. Because one, it's dangerous. And two, it isn't always helpful depending on the circumstances and the plants. If you're a First Nations person and have some knowledge to share, Ben, and I would encourage you to get out there and share it if you think it's appropriate, because we believe people are interested in what you have to say. We have so many episodes that we've already recorded. So we're excited to announce that we'll be releasing two episodes per week during February. Next episode will be released next Sunday on the topic of trees as habitat adopted john Martin, who's associated with the Royal Botanic Gardens in Sydney. Tell your mates and listen to our back catalogue. In the meantime, I guess before we start, I may as well just tell you a little bit about who I am and sort of what I want to achieve with this project. And with this episode. Yeah. Yeah, like I said, my name is Daniel. I'm a maintenance gardener. So for eight years, I've been repairing gardens in Queensland and in Victoria. And that's domestic and commercial, in parks and stuff. And then I guess just for the last few years, I'd sort of been just felt like I had more to give. So I just started writing a blog, and researching about plant care and trying to get ecology and stuff into there as well. And because that's something I really believe in, I really believe in the environment and that we have to have a responsibility to care for it. And were locked down. When I was in Melbourne. I reached out to a bunch of businesses and said, like, would you rather hire someone who has no experience and a qualification or the opposite? And then one of them got back to me. He's a board member for the Western Australian landscape Industry Association. He said, Tell me about your goals in that and I said, I want to start a podcast and then he was like, hell yeah, let's go into business together because podcasts are pretty cool. And yeah, I guess Here we are. And now we're sort of 20 This will 23 episodes deep now and still going strong.
Yeah, right.

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